Lots of artists talk about breaking the mold, but few were as ambitious as the Bay Area-based duo Latyrx. Representing the team of Lateef “The Truthspeaker” Daumont and Tom “Lyrics Born” Shimura, the pair was a part of the Solesides collective (which morphed into Quannum) during the early to mid-1990s. Together with like-minded musical free thinkers like Blackalicious and DJ Shadow, both emcees set out to stretch conceptions of what hip-hop could be.
Released 25 years ago, their debut collaborative album Latyrx: The Album (1997) was a definitive and declarative statement. Put together from somewhat disparate parts, roughly half of the songs on the project were pulled from different 12”s that Lateef and Lyrics Born had released through Solesides. The other half included some original material that they recorded as a group, along with a few interludes and freestyle sessions.
Regardless, it all came together to form a completely unique listening experience. It was an exceptional left-of-center album that drew from classic foundational hip-hop of the 1980s and early 1990s, along with the more experimental section of rap music’s underground. The duo further fused their music with the influences of classic soul, jazz, rock, and reggae/dancehall.
Latyrx runs the gamut of styles and executions. Lyrics Born teams with his future bridge Joyo Velarde on “Balcony Beach,” to create a smooth, soulful mediation on aging and maturity, then delivers “Burnt Pride,” a highly charged funk/rock influenced jam. On “The Quickening,” Lateef kicks hard-hitting lyrics over some serious Bay Area slap, and later mediates on the power of the spoken word on “Bad News.”
But Latyrx is also at its best when the duo swing for the fences and get as way out as possible. The DJ Shadow produced title track is a nearly six-minute-long epic fever dream, beginning with both emcees rhyming nearly completely different verses simultaneously, and flexing completely non-traditional rhyme styles and deliveries. “Say That” is a futuristic endeavor produced by Lyrics Born, where the pair drop rhymes over a slick guitar sample and an assortment of chirps and bleeps. “The Muzappers Mix” is advanced in a whole different way: a two-part jam that repurposes late 1970s and early 1980s dance music into something completely forward-thinking.
Latyrx was embraced by a whole generation of aspiring left-of-center artists. However, both Lateef and Lyrics Born acknowledge that it was occasionally met with some skepticism by the traditional boom-bap crowd. “There was definitely that contingent of underground hip-hop heads that was like, ‘This ain't hip hop,’” Lyrics Born reflects. “But as time went on and we played more and we toured more and we contextualized it and delivered it for people, and over time and as word of mouth spread. … It took it on a life of its own and it could be seen in the proper context.”
I had the good fortune to speak with both Lateef and Lyrics Born about the totality of the experience that was—and still is—Latyrx. We talked about the process of recording the album, the importance of chemistry, and the necessity of committing to touring and other forms of promotion.
When did you two decide you wanted to come together as a group?
Lateef: Honestly, we were both doing solo stuff when we first met up at UC Davis. At that time, we were doing Solesides. Our whole concept for our record label was that we'd put out singles. It was one person on one side and another artist on the other. I remember it being Jeff Chang's idea, actually, after we did the song “Latyrx.” We did the song “Latyrx” because DJ Shadow, he shot at that beat, and me and LB had sat down and written that. [Chang] heard “Latyrx,” and I remember him looking up at me and being like, "You guys should be a group." People heard it and [said], "Oh, you guys have a unique chemistry. You guys should do this."
Did you guys have that same chemistry before recording “Latyrx?”
Lyrics Born: Well, we had done quite a few songs with the three of us: me, Lateef, and Gift of Gab. Like “Deep in the Jungle.” All I remember is that at a certain point we had a lot of solo songs and then we did the song “Latyrx.” I just remember we had all these solo songs that we just put them together on an album and then I think we did a few more songs with the two of us to glue it all together and make it make sense that, oh yeah, there's a group happening here.
Lateef: It was one of those things where as soon as the idea popped up and then we started doing stuff, people heard us say that and they were like, “Yep, we were right. You guys should be a group.” And the other thing that I remember about that record is we were doing wild stuff. We recorded “Latyrx,” the song, remember we recorded it at Ken Nash's spot? He had this mic situation and he was like a jazz dude. He was in the basement with his lady and he was like, "I'm going to get this studio thing cracking and these kids are it.” We were these young kids that came in there and he was like, “How can I help these dudes pull off this crazy shit that they're doing?” And he set up the mics a certain way so we could look at each other and rap at the same time, so there wasn't too much slap-back into the other mics. I remember all of that kind of stuff was stuff that we were learning. We didn't know how to do it and so as a result, we didn't really have any fetters on what we could do or not do. We didn't know what we couldn't do, so we just did whatever we wanted.
With songs like “Latyrx,” did you make a concerted effort to be different?
Lyrics Born: I think there was definitely a concerted effort to do something different and unique. Number one, that was the spirit of the times, to be that way. But then number two, that's just who we were and who we are. We wanted to add on to what was already out there. We didn't want to just fall in line. We wanted to contribute something new to the lexicon. We wanted to expand the vocabulary. We wanted to push the boundaries. That was definitely on our minds. I think that part is just who we are, the need to want to do that. We really tried to do something different.
Lateef: I do think that with the whole Quannum crew, it was just the right people in the right place at the right time. We were built like that. The times were open to that kind of experimental approach to what we were doing. And so we were kind of positioned in the right place. We were up in college, there were all of these records. We were learning and absorbing from all of the lessons of all the musicians of that were in that library. The conversations that we had in retrospect, they were extremely high-brow art conversations about music. We were listening to jazz records and then bebop or just whatever, reggae, dance hall, and then being like, “How can we apply this idea that's completely outside of hip-hop?”
Lyrics Born: I think the other thing also to note is that in that time hip-hop was still primarily an underground phenomenon. I mean, yes, there were other artists and groups starting to emerge that were getting mainstream radio play, but that was not really the norm, necessarily. We were in this place where all of our peers were not making records that were getting played on the radio. And so, I don't know that there was this real pressure to create commercial music. I think there was more pressure to make really creative, genre-expanding, boundary-pushing music. I feel like that was the competition that we were in with our peers, not like who could get more radio play at the time, because that was still not the norm. It's not like now and it's not even it wasn't the 2000s, where hip-hop kind of took over the world in a mainstream way. Which I'm glad it did, but that's not the era or the wave that this album was created in.
With the recording of “Latyrx,” the song, what inspired you to rap at the same time?
Lyrics Born: I think that sort of spirit and that thought process, continues to this day. When we sit down and we write songs together, we're like, “Okay, what are we going to do this time?” And for that song, it just happened to be, “Why don't we try rapping at the same time?” It was like, “What has not been done yet?” And I think that's kind of something that I'm most proud of that has always been a part of our ethos, is we ask ourselves that question, “What has not been done yet?” And then we try to insert ourselves in that space, fill that blank.
Lateef: I distinctly remember we were really heavy into dancehall at the time, and we were watching this sting. I want to say it was like Buju Banton versus Beanie Man, maybe, or it might have been Ninjaman. At any rate, there was some point where they were rapping on stage and they were both doing their hits, but somebody would come up underneath the other person and they'd have the riddims and then all of a sudden you'd have these two things going at the same time with these kind of complementary riddims. And we were like, “What if we did a whole verse like that?” And then we start pulling these other references. And then I also remember the part that to me is distinctly original about that shit though, is because while we were writing it and we started doing it, we started looking at each other and the parts where it would link, we would be like, “Let's make sure that it touches right there. Then we'll go off into other stuff and then we'll come back. We're going to do that and touch again right there.” And that was original. That just happened in the moment while we were doing it.
So what was the process of putting together “Say That?”
Lyrics Born: Wasn't that done for some kind of magazine or some sampler CD that somebody put out? Some other label was putting together a compilation and they specifically requested a Latyrx song and we made that song. And I think “Say That” started out as a promo for Mike Nardone's radio show when he was on The Beat, 92.3. And so we recorded this song that had several homes and then eventually it made it onto the Latyrx album. The really interesting thing about this album, this was not a “let's sit down from start to finish and write an album together in the studio” type of thing. It got pulled together from a variety of sources and a variety of eras and a variety of motivations. I hope that doesn't ruin the magic for people. You’ve got to understand that the era was very rag tag. Studio time was fucking expensive back then. Mixing was expensive back then. Making vinyl? There was no uploading. Everything was physical at that time. It was a huge endeavor back then to make an album, let alone independently.
Lateef: Some of the things about it made it so that you kind of got more in touch with a lot of stuff. I remember with “The Quickening” having to go around and do record runs and go into record stores and running around with Crystal Isaacs. She was promoting my thing back then. But at the same time, I got to run around with Crystal Isaacs and she was a boss, bro. She was breaking Jay-Z and others’ stuff and was telling me about how they were doing it. So there was a way that cutting your teeth back then also led to you finding out about what the hell you were doing. Because there wasn't a book for it or anything.
Lyrics Born: We've been really lucky, man. I mean talent and hard work has a lot to do with it, but we've been really fortunate that these songs and these albums have had staying power. If you think about it, a lot of albums come out every single year. I think very few artists can point to albums that they've made in their personal catalogs that people consider universally to be classics. I think some of us would be lucky enough to have one. If you have one in your life, you're immortalized. If you have more than one, you've hit the fucking lottery, bro.
You mentioned that Solesides was conceived of as a singles label. What was it like putting out the first full-length for the label?
Lateef: I mean, we were running and gunning, bro. When this record came out, it was all hands on deck, any opportunity that was available, we were taking it. We were forcing our way onto bills. We weren't really “force our way on the bill” guys, but we were behind the scenes politicking to get onto bills, go tour around the country. I mean, we did the whole Jeru, Shadow, De La Soul tour as well. We did that tour. And as soon as we got home, we were calling all of those promoters asking if they would have us out again. Everybody in the damn tour book.
Lyrics Born: It was highly DIY.
Lateef: Highly. And just to give credit where credit is due, this man right here, LB, did a lot of the DIYing. He was doing a lot of the calling and coordinating of those tours that we went on subsequently. I would say at that time, LB was much more heavily entrenched in a lot of the business side of stuff than I was at that time. But LB was on it and I was moral support like an MFer, but that's how it had to get done though.
Lyrics Born: I mean, the industry was very young at that time too. It was still a very, very young genre and it felt that way too. I mean, we felt like we were out there chopping down trees. It felt like we were burning wood to keep the heat on. There was no social media. There was no such thing as streaming. Me and Lateef and Quest did whole tours where we're literally looking at paper maps to get from city to city to city.
Lateef: I was good at that.
Lyrics Born: We had Sharpies. And if you missed a motherfucking turn, baby, you missed the turn, man. It was the Great Plains. And it was a very analog world back then.
Lateef: And you’ve also got to consider our age. I was 21 years old and we were out here doing this shit. My mother was like, “Y'all motherfuckers is crazy!” We were out here, like, “Nah, we believe! Fuck college! We believe!” Again, it's this thing that I feel like was the same as the creative process, where we didn't know what we couldn't do, so we just did whatever the fuck we wanted. We’re both from the Bay and we had already had peers of ours be quintessentially successful.
Lyrics Born: When you're talking about the Latyrx album as being part of this whole indie revolution, there's a reason why all these indie labels started in the Bay Area. Since time immemorial, I don't think you can think of a single Bay Area-based artist—especially hip-hop groups—that didn't either start or finish on an independent label, or both.
I heard Too $hort records when I was in elementary school. And I mean, he's not that much older than us. He couldn't have been but in high school himself at the time. So we grew up knowing that there was a way to do it without the traditional machinery. We tried that early. I mean, the reason why Solesides was born was because we were out trying to get deals and shop demos and nobody would sign us. At the time nobody was offering us a deal and so we started making our own records. One single became another single, and then another single. One single became a black and white one. First single was a black and white label. Next single Lateef, color cover! What? Photo? You're kidding me! Next an EP. That's nuts. Melodica. Oh my God. And there's a photo, and they have matching shirts?
Lateef: And feel the quality of that card stock.
Lyrics Born: Next, oh shit! An album with a video? Are you kidding me? All shit that we completely take for granted now is shit that we had to fight tooth and nail for.
Lateef: And even when you think about that album, the cover, we were very, very specific about how we wanted it. That's the competition at that time, this physical product. So how does that record look next to other records? And we were conscious of that. [We worked with] Brent Rollins, who went on to do all of the Ego Trip work and he's worked tons of famous, great artists. Him, B+ is shooting the stuff. We were very cognizant that if we were going to compete and we weren't going to be able to do all of the bells and the whistles that other folks do, then where it mattered, we needed to be the strongest.
Lyrics Born: It's all you had. It's all we had was that record on the shelves. Back then videos cost $20,000, $30,000 for a cheap video, for a low-budget video.
Lateef: That was only going to get okayed for The Box.
Lyrics Born: There was no Instagram. There was no YouTube. We did what we could, man.
Shifting gears, what was it like recording “Burning Hot In Cali?”
Lyrics Born: I think Chief Xcel brought us the beat. X came with the beat and the concept.
Lateef: As he’s wont to do.
Lyrics Born: He said, “When I hear this beat, I hear Burning Hot Cali.” X came with the concept. It was about getting ready for a show. Because that's really what our lives were about back then, was just making music and playing shows. We wrote about just that feeling of getting ready for a show and doing shows.
Lateef: Yeah. And I think back then, writing-wise, if you gave us a frame up and a little alley-oop like that, it was all in. We took it really, really seriously as far as our verses and making sure we didn't do what the other people did and we were going to have our own thing. We were going to talk about this. We loved it. Still do. It was fun.
Lyrics Born: You know, and I think as I listen to this conversation that we're having, I know your questions are about the actual songs on the record or the album itself. But for us, the album was about more than just the music that was on those records. It was this whole period in our lives when in order to make that record a success, it really was our lives. And it encompassed all these other things that we're talking about. The touring, the exploration, the promotion, the experiences. The songs kind of catalyzed all of this and the album catalyzed it too. But when we look back and we think about it, it's about much more than that. Latyrx the album was really a snapshot of our life experience at that time.
What would you say is the most important thing you learned from putting the album together?
Lateef: I'll give you two. Real chemistry can't be faked. Me and LB connected early on. The shit was like, “Oh, this works.” I even feel now people still love Latyrx because every time that we get together and we do a song, we reinforce the reason that they like Latyrx. Every time.
But as far as the album itself, it's really taught me this thing about creating projects in which the projects themselves are kind of like children. Latyrx is like my oldest child. And I don't have kids, but for me, it's like this album where we worked it and we worked it and we took care of it in its infancy for years, until it was 10 or whatever. And then at some point that motherfucker went out into the world and they started doing its own thing out there.
That child has had an impact as a whole, it has touched so many lives and done so many things that I'll never know about. And that's okay. But knowing that something that you make, even if it's just something that you pull out of the ether and record with sound and give to people, that thing can go live and it's going to have a life and it will do things. It's like a super meme. The shit just touches everybody, or everybody that it touches it changes in some way.
Just that experience with a piece of art that I've created to watch it kind of separate from me, and I have my own experience of it, but that record has separated and become part of the lexicon that we wanted it to. But I didn't know what that would mean or how it would feel when it left. I've had people come up to me and tell me about things about that record that had gotten them through parts of their lives. And it's just like, “Wow, my kid did that.” This idea that a child went out there and did this thing for these people and it's beautiful, but it's also strange.
Lyrics Born: What it's reinforced for me is that it's really important that if you're going to endeavor to do something that you really leave it all out on the field. And I know it's cliché, but you really do the absolute best that you possibly can. I know, of course, like any artist with any album, I listen to that album now and I'm like, "Wow, there's a lot of that I would have done differently now. Ooohh.” Overall, I'm very proud of it, obviously. But there's certain things that, knowing the experience that I have now and the artist that I am now, I would have done differently.
At the time it was the absolute best job. We knew that we left it all out on the field that day when we made that record. I think that's really necessary when you endeavor to do anything. You really have to fucking do your best. Because, and this is another cliché, if you do and it connects with people, it'll live forever as a success. And if you did do your absolute best and maybe it did fall short of those expectations or whatever, you can feel contented knowing that you did your absolute fucking best.
As artists, could we have predicted that this record would have been celebrated 25 years later? Of course not. But that was the goal. The goal was to make something that was timeless and the best possible way we could have ensured that and still can ensure that to this day is to feel confident that we're making the absolute best music that we possibly can at any given moment with any given project. And that's what the Latyrx album represents for me.
You mentioned before that you’re lucky if you get to have one classic album in your careers. Would you consider Latyrx a classic album?
Lyrics Born: For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Come on.
Lateef: I would even go so far as to say it is for sure and that's my personal opinion. But I feel like that opinion is actually overridden and informed by other people's opinions. Other people tell me it’s a classic.
Lyrics Born: Put it this way. I can't talk people out of feeling like that record is a classic.
Lateef: When “Wonderful Night” [with Fatboy Slim] was out and I got nominated for a GRAMMY, and I'm at the event and everybody's like, “Hey man, that's dope. When y'all going to do another Latyrx record?” Like, “Bro, I'm at the damn GRAMMYs celebrating.” But probably yes. I’m just saying that's how you know its impact, is because its impact goes beyond you. People come up to you and they're like, “Oh yeah, yeah, this is cool, but this album for me, that's my homie. What's up with my homie? Can I get another version?” It's like that.
Anything else you guys want to add about Latyrx?
Lateef: LB really hit on it when he said that it was an experience. It was a fantastic experience, the making of the album creatively, our process, getting there, how it happened, what happened after the record came out and how it is that we traversed that and then the Muzappers EP, how that came out of it. Even what happened after that, it informed a lot of the rest of the stuff that we've done or it was a launching pad for that. And that wasn't how we treated it and that's not what we knew it was at the time, but that's what it became. That was our early boot camp to get out here and do your thing. And I think that for that, it was a very, very, very good learning experience and growing experience. I mean, I grew. I matured in the process of that album into a whole other level and degree of artist that wouldn't have been possible without that project, without LB, without the rest of the crew and the support that we had around that. Which is another thing with that record. It was me and LB, but there was a lot of other players and supporters and supporting cast for us that really helped lift us and carry us. It was a fantastic experience in my life.
Lyrics Born: We were in college at the time when we started on these records and I think, yeah, we were in college, but I mean, to me, with the Latyrx album, that whole era is where the real education was for what I was to do for the rest of my life. I think that we started touring behind Latyrx shortly after I had graduated. Lateef may have even still been in school at the time. But to me I looked at Latyrx as like grad school. Essentially, I'm still doing the same thing now that I was back then. And those albums, that era, this particular album, I feel personally it gave me the training to go on and do what I continued to do for the next couple of decades. Good and bad. That's how I look at that era and that experience: grad school.
Editor’s Note: This interview has been edited from the original transcript for length and clarity.
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