Seemingly in the blink of an eye, twenty years have already passed since the acclaimed Late Night Tales compilation series first surfaced under its original moniker Another Late Night in February 2001, with the first installment helmed by UK electronic duo Fila Brazillia. Since this inaugural edition emerged, no less than four dozen releases have followed, curated by the likes of such notable artists as Air, Belle and Sebastian, Fatboy Slim, The Flaming Lips, Floating Points, Groove Armada, Jamiroquai, Nightmares on Wax, Agnes Obel, Röyksopp and Zero 7.
To mark the Late Night Tales institution’s 20th anniversary milestone, the accomplished singer-songwriter-producer and multi-instrumentalist Jordan Rakei curated the latest collection, comprised of songs bestowed by his musical peers, his new original composition “Imagination” and an ambitious cover version of Jeff Buckley’s “Lover, You Should’ve Come Over.” I recently caught up with Rakei to learn more about how he went about the task of devising the collection’s tracklisting, the challenges of working in the pandemic, and his own future musical endeavors.
The Late Night Tales project has been through quite a few hands now, so how familiar were you with the concept?
I would say I was a big fan of it. I would check out every compilation, even if I didn’t know the artists choosing them. I think I really fell in love with them after the one Floating Points did and from there I went back to explore and delve deeper. I loved the Nightmares on Wax one from years ago and the Jon Hopkins one. I love that atmospheric mood thing, so it's a good place for me to hear music I’ve never heard before.
So how do you get involved with something like that? Can you seek it out or do they come to you?
They came to me and it was timed perfectly because I’d just released Origin (2019 album) and I was writing for my next album and doing side project stuff, so I had all this time available. They just asked if I’d be willing to put a compilation together and I was really excited, but at the same time it was a bit stressful trying to get to grips with the “tastemaker” vibe to it. You know, it’s such an iconic compilation and has had such great artists do them before, so I really felt like I had to step up and go for it. I really enjoyed putting it together.
Did it take you a long time to do that, because obviously there is such a vast reservoir of stuff to choose from? How long did it take to whittle it down to the songs that made it there?
It took me a while. I wondered how much old stuff I could put on it, how much did I want to keep relatively recent so I could “put people on,” so to speak. I started delving back into albums I loved and really thinking about what I wanted to capture. It was a mixture of sharing my friends’ music that people may not be aware of and also creating this journey of relaxing, atmospheric music with a songwriting element to it as well. The Floating Points one is very “soundscapey” instrumental stuff—I wanted it to be that vibe but with more lyrics and singing, as that reflects me and my artistry. It was difficult—I got to a point where I had about 50 songs that I was really happy with and then I had to work out what to cull and how to arrange the tracks once they were finalized. It probably took about six months, maybe.
Wow! Did they give you any input on boundaries or limits on what could be selected or did they give you totally free rein?
The pitch was however I wanted to interpret the “Late Night Tales” phrase. That was pretty much it. Once I had selected the 50 tracks and they had listened to them, they suggested maybe a couple more instrumental moments or longer tracks. But as we got closer to the final tracklist, we were all equally involved in choosing the best music. I could have had something from the ‘50s or ‘60s—in fact I think Khruangbin did a track from the ‘60s with Santana, so they went right back.
You mentioned a little bit about your interpretation of the “Late Night Tales” term—what would you say your idea of the brief was?
Well, I thought of “Late Night Tales” as a place where people would come to discover music. I wanted to share that platform with as many friends as I could—who do I know who makes this kind of atmospheric thing? So, I searched through all of my friends’ back catalogues and then tried to find stuff that complemented those songs, that weren’t my friends. I was going for a much less “drumless,” ballad-y direction and then I felt if it needed some extra energy, then I’d find something with more drums, like one of the last tracks by Cubicolor (“Counterpoint”) is quite heavy and dance-y, but also atmospheric too.
That touches on a question I was going to ask about feeling part of a community. The last couple of people I’ve interviewed are Gilles Peterson and Bluey from Incognito, and they both talked about the importance of community to the success of musical endeavors. Do you feel part of a musical community here in London?
Oh, definitely! Luckily, I feel part of multiple different pockets. There’s a big soul/jazz scene that people look to London for and I’m friends and have worked with a lot of those people on other projects. So, Moses Boyd and I have gone in the studio to work with Loyle Carner. Yussef Dayes and I worked together on Tom Misch’s stuff and they’re all doing their own thing. Being in London, I can be only a phone call away—a lot of times Alfa (Mist) calls me up and says he’s going into the studio with Loyle and asks if I would like to come too. And obviously, I’m down! That stuff happens a lot!
So that’s one scene and the other stuff like being connected with the label Rhythm Section and Bradley Zero—he’s put me in touch with a lot of people on the underground dance scene, the house community, so that’s how my alter ego (Dan Kye) was born and, again, I’ve worked with a lot of those folks too. I’m also friends with some more straight up pop artists, but being in London has really propelled me as a songwriter, producer and general artist by being surrounded by these people and working with such great musicians from lots of different styles.
How about personally as well? I am always conscious of the fact that artists are human beings first and foremost—how has it helped you on a personal level, coming from the other side of the world to a strange place?
It was interesting moving here. In Australia, I was very comfortable—I had my friendship circle and my routines making beats in my room and all that, but I felt that I wanted to push myself as I thought I was restricting my growth by staying there in my comfort zone. I was quite a shy, anxious, introverted person and it threw me in the deep end. It forced me to meet new people and get my foot in sessions—some of those sessions were a bit weird as I found my feet around things like studio etiquette and so on. I had to develop a lot of emotional intelligence and learn how to read people.
But over the course of time, I grew different friendship circles, but what I love about London is that I’m much more independent over here (all my family is still over there) and I’m doing my own thing. I’m very driven in doing things for myself. It’s great and I consider it home now and if, say, an American asks me where I’m from, I’ll say London.
You mentioned your family being still in Australia, so it would be wrong not to ask how the pandemic has hit you. How often were you able, pre-pandemic, to visit your family? When was the last time you saw them and how has that been?
It’s hard. I would always go back once a year for a visit and then normally I’d be there or in Southeast Asia for a tour, so I could hop across to see them then too—so potentially twice a year. It’s hard because both of my brothers have kids and they had Christmas together, but society is opening up over there, so they have some normality back—they’re walking round, going to bars and stuff, so it’s pretty hard to see that!
How dare they?!
And my mum is telling me to come over and quarantine to see them all. Here though, it’s totally different—I can’t see them opening up any time soon. It’s hard dealing with that and I want to go at Christmas this year, but are they going to let us in? That’s the question. It has been tough, but I guess once I do get there, it will make it that much sweeter.
How about over here then? Obviously, the impact on everyone has been huge, but for musicians and artists it has been exceptionally hard. How did it impact you musically?
You know, it has been a journey for me, like everyone. When it started in March last year, I took it as an opportunity because for the first time I was able to totally invest in my own music. Pre-pandemic, I was doing a lot of writing sessions or producing for other people. I was touring too, so it was hard to balance my calendar and prioritize my work. So, when we entered lockdown, I had this amazing routine once I moved my studio to my house. I would walk the dog and then just be in the room making music—it was fun. Then the second lockdown was very deflating because I had finished all that music and it was a case of ‘now what do I do?!’
You’ve been denied the end part of the process, haven’t you?
Yes, so I created a Patreon subscription thing and I’ve been doing advanced tutorials and connecting with fans. It’s been amazing and it’s kept me really busy as I try to deliver as much exclusive content as possible for the people who have subscribed. So, I’ve been building that side of my career as well—learning how to be a teacher. So now as we return to “normal,” I’m trying to balance that with the other things coming back, like finishing the album and playing the big festivals that are supposed to be going ahead. It’s definitely been a journey. Creatively, the beginning of this year was so hard because everyone was so deflated. All my friends were struggling and everyone is “over it all.”
In thinking about my friends and family, it’s very much a case of peaks and troughs.
Exactly.
When you think further ahead to some kind of resumption of normality, the music industry has been particularly badly hit and that combined with the paltry revenue from streaming means times will probably continue to be tough. Do you see things going back to the way they were or do you see a “new normal” emerging, both for you and the industry at large?
I think it will be a mixture of both. We’ve seen now that these virtual concerts, if done properly, can really work—I’ve tried to buy as many tickets as possible for those. My friend, in fact, is just about to do one tonight and he’s sold loads of tickets. So, if you can’t tour South America, for example, you might do that sort of thing. I’m definitely going to keep doing my Patreon and people are definitely taking their destiny into their own hands more. They’re trying to gain more control over their career and be less reliant on touring for example.
I am seeing lots of people doing things like beat-making videos and creating sample packs—even doing 1-1 musical tuition—its tough out there. Friends of mine who are also session musicians are setting up studio level equipment at home so that they can record at home to get more remote work, rather than rocking up at the studio. I think people and fans are going to be so excited to go to gigs, so I’m not worried about that.
I don’t want to talk about finding a positive out of something so terrible where people have lost lives, but do you think it’s made people more proactive?
Exactly.
You’ve mentioned the magic words there in talking about a new solo album. We had Wallflower in 2017and Origin in 2019, so the mathematics alone tells us it’s time for a new one! How is it coming and what’s the time scale for the new album?
Yeah, it’s good. I’m about to receive the masters sometime this week, so it’s effectively done. We just need to plan when it’s going to come out. It’s definitely my favorite thing I’ve made—it’s my most alternative and obscure sounding yet. I wanted to push myself a bit more sonically and out of the traditional soul music box that I’m put in a lot—which I don’t mind because I love soul music—but I like a lot of other stuff to like Björk, Radiohead and stuff like that. So, I’ve explored a lot of interesting sonic territory that I think people will be surprised by. I connect with this album the most, by far.
When you spoke to us back in 2017, we asked you to select your 5 favorite albums of all time and that list included In Rainbows by Radiohead, Voodoo by D’Angelo, there’s a Fat Freddy’s Drop in there, Kendrick Lamar’s To Pimp A Butterfly and then there is Grace by Jeff Buckley. Anyone who read the interview would know that despite predominantly being placed in a “soul” category, there are other musical influences at play there too. And looking at the Jeff Buckley album, you’ve done a cover of “Lover, You Should’ve Come Over” for the Late Night Tales album. How was it doing a cover of that?
[laughs] Extremely nerve wracking! In sound checks, I’m always singing Jeff Buckley songs to test my mic or something and my band are always joking with me about doing a cover. Anyone who tries to cover one of his songs is going to find it risky and difficult because his voice is insane and he’s one of those people that you don’t even try to touch unless you feel like you can change it.
I was just thinking about songs that have had a massive impact on me and I was doing a live jam on the piano/keys and I started singing it, and it struck me I could do it that way and it wouldn’t have to be anything like his. I just do it more melancholy and let the song do the talking. So, I just started singing it and thought I’d go for it. I didn’t want to think about it too much. The thing is, even my band and Jeff Buckley elitists are adamant you can’t touch it or a Radiohead song.
I can certainly imagine the hesitancy on your part to do it, but it is a very different creature and you’re right, that is the only way to do it, really. Big kudos to you for pulling it off! I want to backtrack a little bit and talk about compilations a little. Nowadays they take the form of playlists that are spat out by algorithms from streaming services, but I want to go back to, maybe, your teenage years and talk about the compilation CDs or tapes that made a big impact on you and your musical journey. Are there some you remember from your formative years that opened up your ears to new directions?
Yeah, massively. This is a story that I always talk to my dad about. I used to dig into his CD collection when I was around 10, 11 or 12. He’d gone to Spain one time to do a walk there and he would stop off at various record shops along the way. But I was at home and rifling through his collection and most of it was Bob Marley records, but I found this compilation called Saint Germain—there are about 18 volumes. I think the story is that it is a coffee shop in France (Saint-Germain-des-Pres Café) in the ‘90s that just played this amazing music and someone asked for a compilation of it and it grew from there. (The music on there is like early 90s acid jazz and nu jazz (the whole Gilles sound from that era). I used to think of it as loungey hip-hop when I was that age and I used to google each artist and song. I’d google “hip-hop with jazz chords but not hip-hop.” I just fell in love with that whole leftfield soul kind of thing and even now that’s really my sound. So, those compilations I have absolutely worn out and discovered so many artists from there.
I’ve tended to be a bit skeptical of algorithms choosing music for me, but those compilations play such a key role in broadening our palettes, don’t they? I had one I bought as a teenager, a Blaxploitation themed one, and it was full of names I’d heard but had never really dived into and that opened everything up for me.
Sometimes I feel with the algorithms that they present me with something they think I like but it isn’t really me—like how did they come to that conclusion? That’s why it’s nice to not rely on the algorithm—I go to artist’s pages and listen to their selected playlists. Floating Points is such a crate digger and I always go to his stuff, and he will have found this really obscure song from years ago and then I delve into that artist.
I find it endlessly interesting to look at how people get into different music and the paths they take to get there.
The thing is, I’m a recipient of the good side of the algorithms with all the DSPs, but at the same time I don’t find new music via those algorithms.
There’s also the issue, without going into it too deeply, that algorithms are only as accurate as those programming them. There are all kinds of prejudices and skewing that it can unleash depending on the programmer. Which leads me to ask about the community you talked about earlier. Do you think there is equality of opportunity for all members of that community? Does everyone have equal access to the support networks and ecosystems that support a successful career?
No, I don’t think so. I feel like it’s getting harder now actually because as the algorithms develop, they favor the more successful artists. I have friends with lots of fans and no matter what, the algorithm will work and they’ll have 200,000 plays in a week. Whereas someone else I might know who will be released on a really cool label and whose work is amazing, will have to put so much groundwork in for them to get any recognition, as there is just so much music out there. They can’t get through the noise to get recognized.
I have so many friends who are insanely talented—they are much better singers than me, they play the keys much better than me. They’re better than me at everything, but they’re struggling to get into the world. I just don’t understand—I’m very lucky that I’m supported by radio, press and my label. I’ve always considered myself very lucky.
Are we talking then about a structural inequity that holds those people back?
Yeah, yeah. I’ve talked a lot about this with my friends and I wouldn’t say this is the only reason that I’m successful, but when I was younger releasing stuff on Soundcloud, I know for sure that the reason I was getting a lot of love was because I was a white guy making beats. There were equally talented Black artists that didn’t get the same recognition. Tom Misch and I have talked about this a lot—we have a podcast and we’ve talked about the reality which is that we have received favor because we are white.
So, this is the million-dollar question then: how can people help break that structure down? As an artist, what is in your power to help that situation?
My managers and I were talking about this last summer when the world sat up and took notice of it. Basically, by being more aware of it to start with and then supporting those artists. So now we want all the support for me on tour to be inclusive of Black and female artists to give them the benefit of opportunities that they might not have had before. So many of my friends who are Black artists don’t get those support spots and that would be one change to help.
Also shedding more light on those behind the scenes too. Take, for example, Inflo who is a Black producer of insane quality—he should be known and lauded more. Alfa (Mist) is another one like that. He’s an amazing producer and should be given the spotlight too.
Did you catch the Little Simz video that dropped yesterday?
Oh, yes! That’s insane, just insane! The music (produced by Inflo) is insane. I can’t believe he isn’t better known. His production is so epic and there is no one else doing that. I would love to see what would happen if we could get together to do something!
Earlier, I mentioned the five albums you chose last time we spoke to you, and I’d like to give you the chance to review those choices and change any if you’d like.
There are always four for me that stay fairly constant—Grace, In Rainbows, Voodoo and the Fat Freddy’s Drop one. Kendrick, hmm, I think those still are my favorite albums. I’m just thinking, sorry…
Its ok, it's a fairly painful thing to answer, isn’t it?!
I feel like those four I mentioned will always be there, as they have such a sentimental place for me as well as the musical aspect of them. They deeply affected my life and outlook on music—they totally changed everything. Maybe the Kendrick album is interchangeable with Bob Marley’s Natural Mystic or something. Yeah, in fact, I’ll say that!
I’m really interested (and glad!) to hear about a new album coming so it would be great to chat further down the line about that when it arrives. I just wanted to ask something about it if I could. Both Wallflower and Origin don’t have guest spots—they felt predominantly like your sole work. Do you see a point in the future where you might have other artists featured heavily on your albums?
I think that I do quite a lot of features—I do a couple a year. There’s some coming soon, although I’m not sure I can talk about them! I always think I want my album to really be feature-less, so it is an accurate reflection of me as the artist. You know I write 30-40 songs before whittling it down to the 10 -12 I need for the album and I ask myself if I really want one of those final dozen or so to be given over to someone else? So, usually I feel that I do features to address that issue and my albums are entirely me and mine.
I find it really refreshing to listen to an album that isn’t stuffed full of guests, as it allows a full portrait of the artist.
What I try to do is keep the energy different. On Wallflower, there’s some pretty straight ahead, easily digestible music and then you can turn a corner and it gets quite dark. On this (new) album there are some chirpy things going on, but vocally, I’ve done some different things on this album. I was talking to my wife and she said I should use my voice more as an experimental instrument. So, the vocal work on the new album is stuff I’ve never done before—it’s much more adventurous with melody and so on. I’ve played it to a couple of friends and they were surprised by the vocal approach, so it’s going to be interesting to see what people make of it!
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