Over a quarter of a century ago, things were looking great for the rap career of Duane “Snupe” Lee. As one half of Extra Prolific, he was signed to Jive Records. His debut album Like It Should Be (1994) was about to drop. He was a member of the Hieroglyphics crew, a blazing hot collective of lyricists and producers from Oakland.
However, it didn’t take that long for things to take a turn in his music career. He lost his deal with Jive not too long after Like It Should Be was released. A couple of years later, after releasing his sophomore album 2 For 15 (1996), he left the Hieroglyphics camp, by all accounts due to internal friction with some of the members. After independently releasing his third album Master Piece (1998), he all but walked away from his music career. He instead decided to devote his life to spiritual causes and has become very active in his church.
Snupe has largely left the Extra Prolific name dormant since the late ’90s. He put out the religiously themed Royalty (2013) under the Extra Prolific moniker, but he left his life as a rapper mostly in the rear view. Occasionally he’s released more religiously themed material as Lee Majors, hoping to appeal to younger listeners with his righteous message.
Recently, he decided to give Extra Prolific another go, releasing a follow-up album to his debut release, dropping Like It’s Supposed To Be this past spring. Content-wise, Like It’s Supposed To Be covers far different ground than Like It Should Be, which makes sense, since it’s the continuation of a project that’s now more than 25 years old. Though he’s not talking about living as wild as he used to, the album still sounds at peace with Like It Should Be. Snupe is more seasoned, but Like It’s Supposed To Be still possesses a similar energy to its predecessor.
Snupe has returned to the realm of hip-hop a changed man, just as the genre has changed pretty radically since he’s been gone. And not necessarily in ways that he believes are better. But though he might not always agree with the content and approach of today’s artists, he hasn’t given up on the power of the music, and believes rappers can still speak from the community, much as they did during his early heyday.
I recently caught up with Snupe to talk about the new album. He also discussed the art of freestyling, the power of forgiveness, and his desire to become a coach rather than a player.
So what made you decide that you wanted to relaunch Extra Prolific and put out Like It’s Supposed To Be?
Two years ago, Pete Spray reached out to me. He and his guy, O-Love, they do beats. He comes from that era, but he’s into things of God, like I am now. So he just reached out to me like, “Hey man, let’s do a record together.” So I was like, “Alright, I’ll do a record.” We did one, it came out nicely, and he was like, “Man, why don’t we do a whole album?” I was like, “Uh……..” I wasn’t sure if I really wanted to be committed to a whole 15, 16 songs. But then I was like, “Alright,” so he let me hear some things, and I started choosing beats, and it kind of slowly got cranking that way. But I would say that it was his music that gave me that nostalgic feel that made me want to do it again one time.
So what was that first song you recorded?
The very first song we did was “What I See.” The track was mellow, I wrote to it, it came out nice. And from there he was like, “Well man, let’s do a few more.” And then I started getting that feeling again.
This album is called Like It’s Supposed To Be. Do you see this as like a sequel, or a continuation to what you started with Like It Should Be?
No, this is a bookend. This is for those who know about Like It Should Be. This is like one of those things where you see how everything concluded. So if you’ve seen Star Wars, you’ve got to go see part two. So this is that thing, to see how it concludes the growth as a lyricist and as a person.
I wasn’t going to do Like It’s Supposed To Be. Pete said, “Why don’t we do Like It Supposed To Be?” I just said, “Eh,” because sometimes that can be a setup. If people have a certain love for what you did at first, and you come up with something that’s not like it, it’s hard. But then it grew on me. I said, “Alright man, Like It’s Supposed To Be, I get it, you know. I kind of see it.”
Do you think the album worked out the way you intended once you bought into the idea?
It did. My only concern was that, because it was a different set of producers, I was like, “It’s not going to feel the same, and I don’t know if that’s going to work for or against me.” But other than that, I love the way we kind of did a salute to the golden era, as far as beats and how I’ve kind of stepped it up lyrically. And on top of that, we’re talking about 27 years later, it wouldn’t even really feel right if I was talking the exact same way. It would be a little weird, like certain things are cool when you’re young, but…
You’re not 19 anymore.
It’s kind of like as you’re doing some directing, you’re like, “Yeah man, I remember him, he was nuts back in the day, but you know, he’s grown.” All of us are growing in different ways. So other than the feel, I love it. It’s raw, it’s kind of refreshing. It’s different than what’s out now, in a good way. So once again I’m kind of saying, “This is how it should be, to do something that you want to do.”
I grew up in the times when there was De La Soul, LL Cool J, N.W.A, Ice-T. We had so many different ingredients, but now it’s kinda like so many people, you don’t know who was who. And so it was great to come up with something like, “Man, you can do whatever you want to do, and it can be dope,” and I love it for that.
So how would you say that you’ve grown as an emcee in the last 26 years?
I had been rapping years before I had actually started emceeing. When I did Like It Should Be, I was just starting to get my emcee shoes on. I had been rapping for years, but I had not been playing with the science and art of wordplay for very long. And so I was still new, and you can kind of hear that on that album. And a lot of people were like, “Man, he’s not as advanced,” or as “complex” as the others. I was more of a stylist, if you will. I was more like Black Sheep was to Native Tongues, in the sense that a regular guy might feel me who don’t like hip-hop.
But since then, the gift has become more polished. I communicate more effectively. Just as you do things over and over the years, you get better at it, and things that were complex to you are not so anymore. And so you can kind of hear the growth, even stylistically, and as far as the complexities.
What I’m saying is more coherent. I remember back in the day, for the sake of a flow, I wouldn’t mind not making much sense, which is kind of dumb, if you think about it. Because if your lyrics are on paper, that makes no sense to a reader. So why would you sacrifice clarity for the sake of a flow?
Back then, we were just in a different frame of mind. But these days, to me the dopest guys are the ones who are like, “Okay, yeah, you got it off. But did you say something?” That’s why Eminem is so dope. He gets it on, but if you listen, you actually like, “Oh, no he didn’t! He said something!”
So have you been in contact with the guys from Hieroglyphics?
I’ve talked to Pep Love recently, on the phone, just checking on him about the virus, and to see how he’s doing. He crossed my mind, and we spoke briefly. He said he heard about the album, congratulations, and we expressed love. And then Domino reached out to me to say he found one of my old demos. And so we kind of typed back and forth.
You start off Like It’s Supposed To Be with “Fresh Prince,” where you freestyle your verses. What made you want to record a freestyle as the first song on the album?
I don’t listen to a whole lot of what’s going on now, but sometimes I check the radio shows. And the guy’s going, “Okay man, alright, I want you to bust this freestyle.” And the guy’s obviously doing some written stuff. And my question is, I know I haven’t been connected for a while, but when did freestyle become something that was written? The last time I checked, a freestyle meant you had to let the beat go, and you just let it flow. So I did that as a salute to the times when it was off the head, and then just to kind of remind dudes when they’re saying freestyle, you may be doing a 16, you’re going to have to announce that and let it be known for the integrity of the game.
How long had it been since you freestyled when you recorded that song?
I ride in the car, freestyle, I play with it sometimes. But I guess it’s not like how it used to be. It’s always been fun to me, just as a fan of hip-hop. I like doing it because it’s kind of like juggling, see how long you can keep the balls in the air before they fall.
What were you trying to say with the album’s first single, “Bang the Drums?”
“Bang The Drums” came to me when I was listening to the radio and a lot of the songs are sounding the same. And I was like, I remember back in the day, you could press record on your tapes and listen to the college radio stations. You wouldn’t know what you were going to get. Beastie Boys, King Tee, whatever it was going to be, it was going to be different. And so “Bang The Drums” is kind of like out of frustration, like, “Man, all around the world is the same song when we turn on the radio, same song.” And I know it’s a lot of people that feel like me.
After a while you start to settle and just think, “Alright, if this is what it is, I’ll play it.” But you still got that longing for something to be innovative, for something to be original. And so from that I spoke like “Man, bang the drums,” and it kind of came out. K-Solo, he had something back in the day, I think it was called “Drums of Death.”
Right, from Tell the World My Name (1990).
I had “Drums of Death” in my mind, kind of mixed up with “Rock the Bells.” Matter of fact, it’s funny because at first I skipped over the beat, I passed on it. And then we were done with the album, and then it was kind of playing in the back of my head. Like, “Man, that little African one, I need to hear that again.” And so I had Pete send it to me and I started vibing to it. I was like, “Nah, this is dope.” It’s not a whole lot of sample, it’s not a whole lot of production. So I kind of skipped it at first, but then I was thinking, if I fill it up with lyrics and adult concept, I think it’ll come across.
“What’s Goin’ On?” features Myka 9 of Freestyle Fellowship. Did you know Myka from back in the day?
We met up back in the day on some battle type stuff.
That’s right! Hieroglyphics and Freestyle Fellowship battled!
Yeah, it was a battle type thing. But it was kinda like all love. Because [Freestyle Fellowship] were doing something different on the cutting edge, lyricist type stuff, it automatically made us kinda like rivals, even though nothing personal was said. I don’t know how that happened.
I hadn’t talked to him since then, and I reached out to him on Twitter, and we exchanged numbers, and then I gave a track to him, I thought he would be dope on it. I thought a lot of people would think, “Well dang, if it’s going to be him and Myka 9, it should be some battle stuff.” But I was figuring that I would do something different. If I had the chance to do something with him, let’s talk about something reflective, let’s talk about something and make people think.
So what made you decide to do a song about self-improvement?
Just the temperature, the climate, the times. There was Black Lives Matter, people protesting, a lot of looking at people and blaming political figures for everything that’s going wrong. You know, and then just as a tribute obviously to the one of the greatest, Marvin Gaye, who’s classic. If you play it today, it’s prophetic, it’s still timeless, because he had those types of words.
I figured like, if you say something meaningful, then after the trends are gone you’ll still be able to play this record with all integrity 20 years from now. But if you just do some party foolishness, sometimes there’s an expiration date on those records. So I just wanted to get back to that place where hip-hop was kind of giving you something to think about and grow from, as opposed to just not even being concerned about who you are, as long as you just like the beat.
On “DJs and MCs” you talk about your love for hip-hop, but you also talk about your experiences in the music industry. How do you view the record industry now? I mean, do you feel a little more jaded about it, or do you feel kind of feel like you’re through with it?
It was Nas who said, “Now I smile like a proud dad watching his own son that made it?” And in one sense, I’m so proud. I’ve come from the era when it was, you’ve got to get a job because this thing is a fad. So I’m so proud to see it become what it’s become.
But the other side of that coin is, to whom much is given, much is required. We’ve dropped the ball in another sense. [People say] if we made billions or millions, we’ve made it. But I don’t see it that way. Hip-Hop to me was at its peak when we were proud with those African medallions, when Public Enemy was teaching us something, and when KRS was dropping science. When King Sun was giving us little nuggets, when Rakim was giving us nuggets. And you had the party cuts, Biz Markie, LL. But for the most part, we had a vision in mind that we know what’s good for us, so don’t let anybody come and poison it.
Do you ever sense that hip-hop could kind of go back to that, or at least there could be an audience for that type of thing these days?
It’s going to go back to that, and this is why. You see what’s going on with COVID-19, right? When times change, music changes. You can go back and look at a ‘70s record by Marvin Gaye, and you’re going to get different feels. He’s saying what’s going on in the time when somebody had to cry out for that on a real record.
And you know, we can always party and do things like that. That’s cool, there’s a time for that. But in different seasons, it’s time for us to get serious, and the soundtrack has to reflect that. It just can’t be, “We’re going to live serious in real life,” and then when we listen to our music it has nothing to do with our life.” At some point, it’s going to have to give us answers, give us thought-provoking arrangements and lyrics to cause us to think. It’s going to have to be more than just entertainment, and I think that happens with desperate times. Things change in our lives that make us give more meaningful music, and so I believe hip-hop is going to be more conscious, because the times are going to beg for that.
You have a song called “Forgiven” about the power of forgiveness and learning how to move on. Was there something in particular that inspired you to record that?
I’ll give you a quick little behind-the-scenes about it. The preacher on the beginning of that song is a guy who I had an odd against for a very long time. It was because he was one of those guys that was sleeping with the ladies in the church. But he was such a great preacher as far as his skills as an orator. So I was inspired as a young kid, and I was blown away when I realized that he wasn’t living what he was speaking. And so part of what’s so powerful about the song is that, in order for me to even use that guy on my song, I’d have to demonstrate what I’m telling others to do.
I was like, “If I’m holding on to something, no matter how painful it is, those people are going about their business. I’m the one who was locked in this thing.” It seemed like I’m locking them out, but I’m the one locked in. So I can just let it go, no matter how painful it is, I can start living, I can start healing, I can start going about it and stop being a victim because the truth is, just like I’ve been hurt, I’ve hurt other people. So if I want to be forgiven, I got to forgive the people that hurt me, or else I’m a hypocrite for wanting people to forgive me when I’m still holding on to grudges. Holding grudges feels so much better because it makes us feel like we’re in control. It makes us bitter longer than we need to be. It seems like it’s weaker to forgive, but it actually takes more strength.
Have you talked to the man recently?
You know what’s funny? I saw him on Facebook like a couple of weeks ago, and we got into an argument. I had to block him. So I guess the moral to the story is this, just because you forgive somebody don’t mean that they not still tripping.
Like you said, forgiveness is for you, it’s not for them.
There it is.
You end the album on “Last Sermon,” which is an optimistic track. And these days, it’s kind of tough feeling optimistic. Do you still feel that same optimism?
Yeah, man, I do. Ultimately, I believe that everything is in God’s control. We’re concerned, we care, but we shouldn’t be worried, because there’s enough worry for tomorrow in tomorrow’s own day. When we were kids, there was a glow that we had in our eyes, when you were thinking about what you could be when you grew up. You had a light in your eyes, and sometimes as you grow up you lose that light because of reality, problems, disappointments and things like that. But I believe there’s something in there, to have that glow. Not a naïve glow, not a gullible one, but just that glow. Like, “You know what? This is what I believe tomorrow can be, and I want to help it be that way.” I think that all great men who inspired us started with that.
[The music] lives on, it takes on a life of itself. You’d be blown away by the people who’ve let me know that a certain song I did helped them out of a hard time. I’m like, “Whoa.” That’s big. So it means something, what we’re doing. It’s just not entertainment, it can weigh heavily in the way that it helps other people. And I think we need to have that vision as we look forward. So I’m optimistic. We got smart people, we’re a smart culture. We just need leadership.
Another thing I say on “Last Sermon” is “I’m not winding up, I’m winding down.” I feel like every player at some point has to put on a suit. That’s just my personal conviction. Jordan was the greatest of all time, but at some point he puts on a suit, he coaches, he owns a team, and I don’t think that that makes him any less of a player. I just think that makes him more aware of what season he is, where rapping is not quite that blatant because it’s not all physical. The court will let you know quickly when it’s time, but I believe that there is a time when you begin to hand the baton to your sons, you mentor the next generation, and then kinda slide into something else, man.
That don’t mean you have to let music alone, but I’m saying just being that one guy up front, I don’t think we all need to be in the spotlight. We’d be stronger if you have more people in the background teaching, mentoring, helping. So I’m transitioning. When I say “The Last Sermon,” it’s a song, but it’s kind of also the vision in which I’m looking towards what’s next. I got three sons, so I’m ready to put on a tie and do something else with music.
So we always ask this, what are you five favorite albums?
Dr. Dre’s The Chronic, Eric B. & Rakim’s Paid In Full. Will Downing’s A Dream Fulfilled, Stevie Wonder’s Songs in the Key of Life, and Anita Baker’s Rapture.
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